.jpg)
In High Alignment with Kerry Walsh
In High Alignment with Kerry Walsh
Ep. 12- Transforming Self-Perception Through Body Positive Boudoir Photography with Annie Minicuci
Ever wondered how a body positive photographer can transform your perception of self? Join us for an enlightening conversation with Annie Minicuci, where she takes us through her inspiring journey from discovering body positivity to mastering trauma-informed boudoir photography. We explore the importance of creating a compassionate and inclusive environment for clients, and Annie shares the subtle yet crucial differences between being trauma-aware and trauma-informed. You'll learn how authentic representation of diverse body types can change the narrative in photography, making clients feel like true masterpieces.
Building a client-centered photography business comes with its own set of challenges and rewards. Annie provides invaluable insights on embracing imperfections and the continuous learning process essential for new business ventures. We discuss practical strategies such as setting up comprehensive FAQs to manage client expectations and the benefits of hiring systems experts to streamline workflows. Additionally, Annie’s art history background adds a unique layer to her artistic photography, enhancing the aesthetic quality of her work and providing a deeper connection to the art form.
Preparing clients for an empowering boudoir photography experience involves more than just technical skills. Annie emphasizes personalized pre-session grounding techniques to ensure clients feel safe, confident, and celebrated. We delve into the nuances of shadowing photography sessions for learning purposes and share favorite resources like uplifting books and inspiring podcasts. To wrap up, we dive into our shared love for nature and music, reflecting on the joy of harmonizing with friends and the emotional connections fostered through these beautiful experiences. This episode is a heartfelt blend of wisdom, laughter, and meaningful conversations that you won't want to miss.
Connect with Annie on Instagram @annieminicuciboudoir
and follow her education account @boudoir.redefined_
Workshops referenced:
Devon Dadoly- quarterly "Trauma- Informed Photography" workshops
Cheyenne Gil- Boudoir Photography workshops
If you like what you're hearing, please leave a 5 star rating and review the show on Apple Podcasts and Spotify!
Follow Kerry on Instagram @kerryannecoaching
Subscribe to Kerry's Substack: https://kerryannewalsh.substack.com/inhighalignment
Learn more and apply to work with Kerry: https://kerryannewalsh.com/coaching-home
hi kitty winkies, as my granddad used to say in his very posh british accent, so actually it would have sounded like hello, kitty winkies. Welcome back to the In High Alignment podcast, the podcast where we connect with rebellious creatives and courageous guests who are forging the path towards living in alignment with their core values. I'm your host, Keri Walsh, and in today's episode we will be talking all about body neutrality and trauma-informed boudoir photography, with the incredible Annie Minicucci Inside the episode. We learned from the expert on what it means to be body and fat positive, who can claim the title trauma-informed versus drama-aware and what those terms actually mean, and how to create a caring, sensitive environment for our clients before, during and after they step in front of our lenses. I can't wait for you to listen to this episode and to be back after our summer break More on that in the next episode on the seven types of rest. Annie holds so much wisdom and I know that this episode is one you won't want to miss. You can find Annie on Instagram at Annie Minicucci Boudoir for her boudoir work, or Annie Minicucci Photography for her wedding work. All the good references and things that come up during the show will be referenced in our show notes and, without further ado, let's dive in.
Speaker 1:Today I'm excited to be joined by Annie Minicucci, a body positive photographer, who will chat with us today about how she combines her art history background and a fat positive mindset to help every client she works with feel like living, breathing art, as well as how Annie is a voice in the industry who helps other local photographers really learn more about how to have that similar fat positive mindset with every client they are working with, helping them feeling like living, breathing art as well. Annie definitely is an amazing she doesn't like to say, but I will say on her behalf educator in this space. So, Annie, welcome. Thank you, Keri, I'm so excited you're here. So give us your backstory. How did you become a body positive photographer and just how did you come up with that title? Because it's not one that we necessarily hear often or see often, but says so much in so few words.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so body positivity is one of those things that I feel like has become a buzzword in the last couple of years. But if you jump back, maybe like five, six, seven years ago, it wasn't something that we talked about as much. It wasn't something we heard about, and I was kind of in the same boat. Boudoir has become my focus as a photographer, though. I bring that fat positivity, that body positivity, into weddings and boudoir. When I first learned about body positivity, I was also first learning about boudoir. So it actually it's something that a friend of a friend was like Ooh, I'd really like this kind of session and I was asked to do it. But I was like, okay, hold on, what is boudoir First of all? And had to do some research there and while doing that research discovered that there was this big gap. I was only seeing certain bodies represented, I was only seeing a certain style represented and it felt very edited, it felt very body contoured, it felt very inauthentic and, being in a place with my own body where I was beginning to dismantle years of diet, culture, years of trying to make myself smaller at all costs, I was just kind of like hold on a second, I don't feel like. I'm ready to be the person to provide your friend with this session. I want to take a year. I wanted to dig into this. I want to book a boudoir session for myself and really discover what it means to take up space in your body as well as what body positivity means outside of self, because body positivity it's so much more than just loving yourself or caring for your own body. It's impossible to love your body every day. I wish that it was possible for us to love the body that we live in every single day. And sometimes, when people hear body positivity, they think that that's what it means and that's fair. That's what it sounds like it means. But what body positivity actually is? It's so much bigger than self. It's a social justice movement. It's something that's been around for decades, spearheaded by the fat, black and queer community Heads up.
Speaker 2:I will be using fat as a neutral descriptor term as we talk about this. Fat is not a bad word. There's no morality in fat. As you hear me talk about fat, just know I'm using it as a neutral descriptor and not as good or bad or anything else.
Speaker 2:But learning about body positivity ended up becoming learning about the social justice movement and bringing body positivity into a space like boudoir, which is so vulnerable but has the capability to be so empowering, just seemed like a match made in heaven. So empowering just seemed like a match made in heaven. What's more vulnerable than getting into basically just your skin? Very little clothing in front of a lens, in front of a camera, and being encouraged to take up every inch of space that you need modifications if need be, need be, and to see bodies that looked like the average body and bigger bodies, fat bodies represented in art and in media. I think that that's such a powerful healing tool and a step towards fat folks getting the advocacy and the rights that they deserve for basic things like finding accessible clothing and adequate health care, being listened to by their doctors and flight accessibility, travel accessibility. I think that it's all kind of intertwined.
Speaker 1:Totally, totally. And so then, who are some of those people? When you were like I need to learn more about this movement, I need to really get into the weeds here, where did you turn to in terms of who you were looking to for education? And then I know you did some more in-depth training in terms of your own trauma awareness and training there, and so how does that weigh into things as well?
Speaker 2:So my search started, very small and very local, and I think that that's where my passion for local education comes in and bringing this conversation to rural PA. I'm not in Philly. There's so many awesome babes to look up in Philly. If you want to hear about fat positivity, shout out to Cheyenne, shout out to Devin, shout out to Cheyenne, shout out to Devin. I'm sure that Carrie will tag all of these people and their businesses for you to follow and for you to look up, but shout out to so many incredible voices who are in major cities and have major platforms talking about these issues.
Speaker 2:In small town, mechanicsburg, pennsylvania, that conversation wasn't really being had, and so I traveled to Philly for week long workshops with Cheyenne. I did independent trauma informed training, which wasn't initially part of the body positive outlook that I was searching for in the industry, but in meeting people like Devin, who I talked about. Devin is somebody that I met at Cheyenne's 2020 workshop. Devin's role and Devin's voice as a trauma-informed educator and photographer made me realize just how important that aspect was to bring into boudoir as well important that aspect was to bring into boudoir as well. Devin frequently says when you work with people, when you work with humans, you work with trauma and so, as anybody in any industry who works with human beings, trauma-informed care, I feel like, is such a valuable asset to the way that you approach your clients and giving them an experience that truly feels comfortable and that makes them feel seen and cared for. And, of course, boudoir, with it being such a vulnerable thing you want your clients to feel seen and cared for.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, yeah, for sure. And you do such a powerful job of intertwining, just the, like Devin says, when you're working with humans, you're working with trauma, and just how to make that really personal and invite a space where, as you've mentioned before, like, the person gets to decide if you're creating a safe space for them or not. You don't get to say this is a safe space.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah. I think that that can come across as a little bit scary, especially to newer creators, newer photographers, because you want people to know how much you care and so your first inclination is to shout to everyone I'm safe, you can trust me, but we don't get to decide. As the creators, as the artists, as the photographers, we don't get to decide what is safe for somebody. We can easily see things from our background and from our perspective, but somebody who comes from a different background than me, has a different lived experience than me, might need something different, that I might not be aware of, in order to feel safe, and so part of being a trauma informed business is allowing for that client voice to tell you what it is that they need to feel safe and to hold yourself accountable there when they speak these things to you, to be able to make those shifts and hold that space for them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what are some other areas of your business that you have included this trauma awareness? Now that you yourself are aware of it, it's like okay, you know that you want to have that choice in so many places in your business so that people can decide and have that am I going to work with this person or not, throughout their entire experience with you? So what are some other places in your business that you infuse that choice?
Speaker 2:Yes, I love talking about this, so I feel like I should run down. This is just a quick Google. This is public knowledge. This is just a quick Google. This is public knowledge. If you were to Google the six pillars of trauma-informed care, you first hit on Google would come up with a list that says safety, it says transparency and trust, it says peer support, collaboration, empowerment and choice, and it talks about cultural, historical and gender issues.
Speaker 2:There's so much room in a business model to incorporate these things everything from transparent prices, prices posted on your website, transparent sales practices which, carrie, I know is your niche and what brought us together in the first place to giving that voice, allowing your clients to let you know what feels comfortable for them.
Speaker 2:So implementing questionnaires through your workflow, giving them a voice for consent, asking them frequently what their boundaries are, what they're comfortable with, and allowing them to change their mind throughout the process.
Speaker 2:Keeping that constant communication, as well as communicating your expectations and your boundaries.
Speaker 2:If there's something that is a no-go for you, letting your clients know that.
Speaker 2:And some kind of really simple things that feel like they should be obvious, but things like spelling out for people clearly what it's going to be like when they arrive at your studio space or your location, how they can expect to dress that morning, what they should eat or drink or wear to make themselves feel more comfortable and to be adequately prepped for the photography session. These all seem like things that would be really commonplace or it would be really obvious things. But setting super clear expectations, letting your clients know that they have a voice in this, and being really honest and upfront about things like your boundaries and about how much this is going to cost them All of those things are great ways of setting up a trusting relationship, setting up a transparent relationship with a client so that they feel really cared for and they leave that experience not only getting whatever beautiful service it is that you're providing for them, but also leaving that experience feeling incredible, feeling powerful, feeling like they had a voice, like they had a hand in this.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it sounds like so much of the quote unquote work is in the preparation and in your communication and really having that communication not necessarily free flowing all the time, because you as a business owner have to have your own boundaries too, but communicating what those boundaries are. So you are setting those expectations. It sounds a little bit like when I'm listening to you I'm like it kind of sounds like a lot of work for somebody who is starting out or just starting to make those adjustments in their business. So do you have somewhere that you pulled some language from or were able to kind of build your communication templates or something off of, or do you have them of your own that you are offering for people to buy? How do we start?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that is a great question. And so much of my workflow now, so much of what my clients experience. It's still changing, it's still growing, it's still evolving. So if you are just getting started, don't feel like you need to have the perfect workflow set up before you are able to launch. Get in there, get your hands dirty. Understand that to be trauma informed means that you will still cause harm. You're never going to be perfect. You're never going to never cause harm. That's just not possible.
Speaker 2:I'm not saying to jump in carelessly, but allow yourself space to continue to learn and to continue to do better, providing space for client feedback. So, if you're just getting started, pay attention to what people frequently ask of you before their sessions. Setting up an FAQ is a really, really great way to set expectations and you can just keyword search through past emails or through reviews to see things that people brought up, questions that they have, needs that they had. I think just giving yourself that space, plus giving clients a space for feedback after the session, not just in the form of a client review but in an honest. Okay, this is how I felt cared for, or this is where I saw a little bit of a gap and would love to be cared for in the future, where I saw a little bit of a gap and would love to be cared for in the future, framing it in a way where you are allowing yourself to be reviewed by them in a more whole picture.
Speaker 2:Not just the positives. We love hearing the positives, it feels so good, but in a way that you say to your clients you know, I want you to feel welcome here. How can you feel more welcome in the future? What are the things that you felt like were missing, so that I can do even better the next time we work together? And these are going to provide a really excellent framework for you to continue to grow and build things throughout.
Speaker 2:If the idea of creating a workflow is so overwhelming to you that you're like I would actually I would just rather hire that out. You can do that. There are systems experts out there who will help you with everything from scheduling to contract integration, so that people can sign electronically to client management with automated questionnaires, automated emails, because it is a lot of background work. It is a lot of work, and so if that seems really overwhelming to you and you need somebody to kind of help you spell out what a client system should look like. That's not my niche. Mine's been cobbled together over years of discovery but there are people out there that that is their niche and they will help you get something prepackaged and pretty and ready to present clients.
Speaker 1:So with that client feedback, it's more of like a private questionnaire or something like that, where they're able to feel like they can really tell you everything, whereas I know a lot of clients won't necessarily put everything on a review or it's all positives because they want to reflect positively on your business, because they did have a great experience. But that private questionnaire is helpful for helping you become a better business owner.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think it's all in the way you frame it. Definitely ask for reviews Reviews are such powerful tools in your business but also have a little check-in, just a private check-in. This can either be in person If you're really good at remembering what a client says, this can be in person at the end of the session, or it can be 24 hours as an automated little two or three question survey after the session, just so that you are getting honest feedback and your client also feels followed up with and checked in with and cared for, even after your service to them has been completed. Awesome, I love that.
Speaker 1:That's huge. So, then, thinking about how you bring your art history background impacts your photography work so that you are able to create those living, breathing, artwork style photos for your clients.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, I have to admit so much of this is subconscious. So much of this is just a culmination of years and years and years of seeing myself as an artist pursuing the arts, facing rejection and even failure. You know trying. Originally my plan was to be a curator in a museum when plans for grad school fell through and life took a few shifts. I got married, I stayed in Pennsylvania. Instead I tried to make it as a painter in the art world and this is basically.
Speaker 2:That's such a small little window of time, but this has been my whole life. This has been a lifetime of different artistic endeavors, artistic pursuits, always knowing that I wanted to be in the arts. And now I bring that skill set. I bring all of those experiences, the good, the bad, the failures. I bring it all with me and very often when I'm looking at a client or I'm looking at a location or a lighting situation, my brain defaults to being able to spot pattern recognition in things like lighting and composition and some of my favorite eras of art history which incorporate really dramatic shadows and golden light being cast on voluptuous bodies and all of those things.
Speaker 2:And this sounds really, really corny and I'm so sorry. It's probably not helpful for most people, but it's not something that I think about directly. When working with a client, I try to be very, very mindful and in tune personally with the human being in front of me. But I'm very fortunate to have this 20, 30 year lifetime of pursuing the arts in the back of my head at all times. That helps me create work that feels like art, that feels like painting, because long before photography, drawing, painting, art, history, those, those were my true loves. Those were the things that I I sought after, and so incorporating that style into photography was something that came easily, because, as an artist, I already knew what my style was wow, that's so cool.
Speaker 1:So how do you? How do you find your locations? How do you decide where to go with clients to have that gorgeous golden glow or shadows, or places that are going to have enough dimension but not too much that it's distracting from your subject? How do you find those spots?
Speaker 2:I think it takes, once again, a lot of background research, a lot of digging, a lot of doing your due diligence behind the scenes. When I pick locations for clients, I look for three major factors, the first factor, especially for boudoir, being privacy. I want it to be somewhere that we can feel secure privacy. I want it to be somewhere that we can feel secure, that we can feel safe. I want to preface this by saying I do also photograph boudoir outside, and so if I have a client looking to be photographed for boudoir outside, there is also a very transparent conversation about how there's only so secluded we can be. Sometimes there are joggers on the trail, sometimes there are teenagers who are on a date hiking, and we keep robes and blankets and things close by on hand. We are very aware when we are out, we pick a spot that has lots of viewpoints so we can look around and see our surroundings and if we need to grab that blanket real quick, I'm not above walking straight up to a person 100 yards down the trail and going excuse me, but there's a photo shoot happening here, thank you, bye. And having them turn around or telling them I know that this is a public space, I know we're in the outdoors, we're not on a private property, but if you just give us 10 minutes we'll be on our way and then you can come through, and 99% of the time people are very gracious and allow that to happen.
Speaker 2:When it comes to indoor locations, having that privacy often means being transparent with the owners of the property about what kind of photography that you're doing there and making sure that that property is on board, that they understand what you're doing, that they respect what you're doing. Anything questionable like schedule tours during that time or try to watch the session or record the session in any way. Also, not treating you or your client badly by accusing you of making porn in their space which boudoir is not porn. But I have absolutely been accused of making porn and banned from spaces. So that's why having that transparent conversation with the property owners beforehand to make sure that the space is truly private, it's truly safe for you and your client to be there, is really, really important. And then, of course, the aesthetics the other two big parts of that. So I guess the first two parts were privacy, and then safety and transparency with the owners of the property if there is a property owner and then the third part of that is the drama. Right, you want that location that is going to give you that really, really gorgeous golden light. So if you're outside, visiting that location at multiple times a day, multiple times a year, so that you know what you can expect from that location Even different weather conditions to see whether or not you need to reschedule or what time of the year is best to be there and for those indoor locations, it really comes down to practice.
Speaker 2:Really comes down to practice. I am very fortunate to have found a handful of locations that I now use as my preferred location. All the time Clients get to choose from a predetermined list, because I know that these locations fit my aesthetic, that they're beautiful, that I get inspiration from photographing there and that they also fit the accessibility and safety requirements that I look for in a location. But it took years of finding that, so a lot of it is trial and error. And during that first year to kind of call back to our very first question of what is boudoir, what is body positivity? How did I get involved? I spent that first year asking friends if they'd be willing to be my guinea pigs and traveling to different locations, renting out Airbnbs, having sketchy conversations with Airbnb owners about what we were doing there until I could find a list of locations that really fit the requirements that I was looking for and that I knew would give clients a really great experience and continue to inspire me time and time again.
Speaker 1:After many, many visits, yeah, so I mean the depth that you go into for each of your clients to ensure that they have privacy, they have safety. You have set the precedent as those priorities, first and foremost, and then aesthetic, Third. I love how you ordered that, just again echoing back to your essence, and the way that you create an environment for all of your clients so that they can then choose whether it's right and safe for them too. But is there times where clients are like I actually want to photograph at this other place, Like how do you kind of manage those conversations? Do you allow it, Do you not? Do you have some prerequisites? And then you can go like what's, how do you manage that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I like to approach that with flexibility. I will be honest in the past, when people come to me looking for a location outside of the list but not having a specific location in mind, that's a little bit of a red flag to me. I have done the work in the behind the scenes to make sure that these locations, that there's a variety of aesthetics available to you, that they are safe and that we can be comfortable and that I know that I can give you good work from these locations. That being said, if somebody comes to me and they just moved into their first apartment or they're getting married and they feel like it would be really special for these photos to be in the bedroom that they're going to be sharing with their partner, that's a totally different story.
Speaker 2:Yes, please, I want to hear about the places that inspire you. I want to hear about the places that make your heart happy and filled with joy and make you feel comfortable, because that's such a big part of your session. So, if you're coming to me with a specific and reasonable space in mind that we can either afford to rent for the day as an additional fee on top of your regular session fee, or that we can work together to prepare your house for a photo shoot. Do a little virtual tour, make sure I know where the windows are. I'll let you know how to clean and tidy your house so that it looks photo shoot ready. Those are absolutely things that we can do.
Speaker 1:So then, thinking about, how do you know who your ideal client is, how do they approach you Like, what's the process like with them, so that you know when they're right, when they're aligned? Let's say, and then, how did you kind of come up with that, for lack of better term client avatar.
Speaker 2:Sure. So I don't have an ideal client. I guess my ideal client is somebody who sees my editing style, sees my aesthetic and loves it, sees the way that I approach bodies and loves it and is ready to celebrate themselves. I'm not somebody who's going to do body contouring. I'm not going to make you look like you have a different body than you actually have. I'm not even going to pose you to make you look the skinniest that you can possibly look. I'm just not going to do that.
Speaker 2:So if you're looking for somebody to pose you to look super skinny or super flattering you to look super skinny or super flattering and you're going to want somebody who will airbrush and photoshop your body into whatever ideal you have in your head, that's that's not me, that's I think that's the only client. That is not for me and I'm not for you, because I'm not going to be able to provide you that. And if that's the only thing that's going to make this interaction a success for you, then I'm just not the photographer for you. But if you're somebody who is willing to trust me a little bit, I promise to do my best to earn that trust. And you know that you like my artistic style and know that you are ready to feel fully grounded in your body during the session, then I think that we're a great fit and nothing else about you really matters.
Speaker 1:Amazing, amazing. I love that. So you spoke about helping people feel grounded in their bodies for their session. Do you have some practices that you move through? How do you help people feel grounded in their bodies?
Speaker 2:Sure. So you get a prep list, a body, spirit and mind prep list before your session. It will walk you through a few grounding techniques, ways to feel fully present. It speaks to a variety of senses For you. Maybe this is drinking something warm and cozy, or drinking something cool and sweet. Maybe it's making a playlist that makes you feel incredible. Maybe it's making sure that you clear your schedule. That day you don't have work, you don't have any other obligations, so that you can take it slow in the morning and feel really pampered. Whatever it is, there's a whole list of recommendations there, even right down to when you should shave or if you want to shave because you don't have to remove any body hair a whole body, mind prep list to help you feel your absolute best and your skin going into this session.
Speaker 2:Once you get to this session, we don't hit the ground running. We come in, we talk for a little bit. I make sure that you're feeling okay. It's totally, totally normal to feel nervous. We talk about expectations.
Speaker 2:I give you a little crash course in boudoir posing, because posing for boudoir is unlike posing for anything else. So even if you've had graduation pictures or wedding pictures taken, it's not the same where so much of that is talked about beforehand, but we talk about it again the day of. We revisit topics like do you want these photos shared? Do you want to decide after what level of nudity would you like involved in your boudoir session today? Do you want none at all? Do you want to be fully clothed?
Speaker 2:Once again, these are questions that are on questionnaires beforehand, but we bring them back the day of because people have the ability to change their minds and decide day of what feels comfy for them. And then, once things are a little bit more calm, things are a little bit more grounded. Maybe you've had a drink of water. We've nailed down exactly which outfits we're going to use from the variety that we planned ahead of time. We've nailed down exactly which rooms of the mansion that we want to use or what spaces that we want to use outside or at my other locations. Then, and only then, do we jump in. We start the session and I physically get into each of the poses before you do so that when we begin, you feel like you have the most preparation and the most knowledge that you can possibly have, to feel present in the moment and to feel cared for and not like I'm leaving you out there to hang and figure it out on your own.
Speaker 1:That's such a caring and like beautiful process. I love that so much and I love that you do take your time with everyone, because I think that so often we can think of photo sessions as a oh my gosh adrenaline build. Boom, boom, boom. You're in front of the camera, which is exciting. It is like an activating, like higher, higher heartbeat experience. But I love that you take it down first and build that energy as the session goes. So and that starts, like you said, way before the actual session happens and is reiterated throughout. So I think you also maybe posted this one day or something about how, if someone is unsure, if they wanna do full nudity at any point in their session, you give them time and you can say, hey, we can come back to this towards the end and I can ask you then as well if you want. But we don't have to at all or I cannot ask you again. It's up to you.
Speaker 2:Yes. So if somebody answers no to something like nudity on your very first questionnaire, don't bring it up again. They answered no, they're not interested in talking about it more, but provide the option for multiple answers. So I have a no answer on that questionnaire, I have a maybe can we talk about it day of answer on that questionnaire and I have a yes, absolutely. I want to take all my clothes off. Let's do this answer On the questionnaire it's.
Speaker 2:You know it's important to continue that vibe check. So if they answered maybe or they answered enthusiastically yes, and this can be nudity, this can be sharing photos, this can be anonymously sharing photos, whatever it is on your questionnaire that you're offering consent and a voice to your clients for, if they answered no, leave it alone, and if they answered maybe or yes, then bring it up again and give them the option again to either confirm that yes or say let's check in again later.
Speaker 1:I just love how you infuse just that process continuously of giving your client consent, making sure your client feels really empowered with the choices that they have throughout their whole time of working with you. So you're just such a gem and a leader in just the way that you lead your clients through sessions as well, as I know that you do some education around this and you offer mentor sessions. Right, I do.
Speaker 2:I think that it's really important that photographers take this topic seriously and, as I mentioned earlier in the conversation, there are some big, incredible names out there. If you are in major cities, if you are in Philly, which happens to be the closest major city to me and want to learn from those big names there, go for it. But if you're in small town, rural Pennsylvania, like I am, where this conversation isn't quite as big, there's not as many names talking about it, please come talk with me, because it's no less important here than it is anywhere else and we can just schedule a zoom call. If all you want to do is just pick my brain and figure out what questions to ask and how best to care for your clients, or if you want to shadow me, you get to shadow a real live client, a real live session, not just a model or a styled experience, but something that is real.
Speaker 2:I will preface this by saying I have it as a part of my questionnaire and a part of my booking process for clients to tell me before they pay their retainer, before they book, whether or not somebody shadowing me is something that they are willing to have as a part of their experience. So when somebody asks to shadow me, it's on a as available basis, because these are real clients and because my heart and my priority in that session is for the client and not for the student. So when you want a shadowing experience with me, it's not going to be a paid model, it's not going to be a styled experience. It's going to be something real and I expect that respect that I would give to my client to be given to that time and that space and that client by the student as well, as they observe my flow and my session with the client.
Speaker 1:That's so powerful to have like the real deal experience, not a curated experience, because, as much as styled sessions are beautiful and a great place to create content and grow content, really understanding a true client experience and process which is one of the greatest things that you offer is necessary to do with a real client. So I love that you do that. And then after that session, do they have time with you to kind of recap or break down questions that came up for them throughout and ask those questions of you later? Because, like you said, the whole focus of that shadow session is going to be on your photography client.
Speaker 2:Oh, my gosh for sure. So that's the big difference between shadowing versus Zoom. In that Zoom call it's just the two of us. We're talking the whole time. You can ask me any questions that you want, but everything's hypothetical, right. Everything's theoretical because there's no physical client in front of us when you're shadowing with me, so much of it is just observation. I encourage you to bring a notebook jot down your thoughts. I ask that nobody record or photograph during that session, but write down every question that you think of as you're thinking of them, because we are going to either go get coffee or lunch or schedule a Zoom call afterwards where all those notes that you took, all those questions that you collected while you saw me working with the client, we get to then dig into those and tackle those and determine whether or not those need to be a bigger conversation where we schedule something separate down the road to deep dive into those.
Speaker 1:So good, so good, all right. So let's move into our quick and quirky questions.
Speaker 2:Love it.
Speaker 1:What are one or two of your favorite business books?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I was a business minor in college and because of this, I think that I really hate reading business books Makes sense.
Speaker 2:Makes sense. A myriad of reasons I love books. I love books, they're my escape and I have a lot of fun with them. That being said, I will always happily listen to people who inspire me. So Terry Hereford's book the Geo Theory has been on my TBR for a long time, and also I don't know if you've ever listened to Aubrey Gordon's book it's on audiobook or her podcast maintenance phase but it is one of my all time favorite podcasts from a fat and body positive perspective and it's a must listen to for anyone either living in a fat body with a fat friend, working with fat folks or just wanting to be a better human in general.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, huge fan of Maintenance Phase, so we'll absolutely have to check those out. Thank you. What's the last thing that actually made you laugh out loud?
Speaker 2:what's the last thing that actually made you laugh out loud? Definitely jory, my partner. Um, we laugh all the time. We laugh dancing around the kitchen, making dinner. We laugh watching our silly shows at the end of the night or taking walks in the park. Um, yeah, life, life is good with them. I love that so much.
Speaker 1:What does alignment feel like for you?
Speaker 2:I think that it feels like peace and that can be kind of an ambiguous term, but what I mean by that is a lack of urgency. I think that it's just kind of feeling settled and self-assured, without that like desperate feeling.
Speaker 1:Yeah yeah, the word I like to use for that is steady. Yeah yeah, I love that. That makes so much sense. How do you know when you are in alignment?
Speaker 2:I think that, similar to my last answer, when I things are kind of just flowing, when it feels really natural not that there aren't challenges or stuff like that but I think a big, a big red flag that I'm not in alignment is taking on other people's stress as my own, taking on other people's deadlines and urgency as my own. That's a huge indicator that somewhere I have left alignment and gotten myself off track.
Speaker 1:That makes so much sense and that was going to be my next question is, like when you feel out of alignment and sometimes it's like just the best way to describe what is is when you have the contrast of what isn't so well, and I think that sometimes when we're in alignment, like I don't always feel super hyper aware of it, I'm much more aware of when I've fallen out of it and no longer have that easy feeling yeah, yeah, and it's like okay, we got to change things up because this isn't working.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I feel you on that for sure. Where feels?
Speaker 2:like home in your bones, definitely outside in nature. I love living on the Northeast coast. I need trees and mountains and water nearby. I loved my time in Ireland and I know that I'm going to love my time in Scotland. I get to go to Scotland for the first time this November.
Speaker 1:Wow, oh my gosh, that's so exciting. They have such similar but distinct feels in their own way, and I can't wait for it, like I've actually never been to Scotland it's still on my list, so. I can't wait to hear what you think of it and just follow your stories and any photos that you take, because I know it'll just be art. I know all of them will be art.
Speaker 2:I'm so excited to be there in November at like the height of its moodiness, you know?
Speaker 1:Yes, exactly, it definitely is like you're the right person to go in November. You know what I mean when it's peak cozy times, peak moodiness. So, oh, that's so awesome yeah that's what I want. Love that for you. So what is your go-to pump up song?
Speaker 2:Lately I've been listening to a lot of Chapel Roan, along with a bajillion other people, but the song Dreams by the Cranberries will always be something that stops me in my tracks and makes me sing with my whole chest yes, I feel that in my bones.
Speaker 1:Uh, dreams by the cranberries is just like such a vibe and it's such a trans, like a portal of a song that takes you somewhere else it really is so quick.
Speaker 2:Little side story when I was like 11, a family friend who was kind of like an uncle to me showed me that song for the first time, like along with the music video, and I think that like something chemical changed in my brain and I was just like, yes, this is it, this is it, yes, moments that alter my brain chemistry.
Speaker 1:Listening to the Cranberries Dreams for the first time, so good. It's also one of my favorite karaoke songs, honestly, and like especially singing with someone who can do the melody while I can do the harmony, because for some reason that's just where my brain tends to go is to the harmony. Oh my gosh. I love that, so let's do it. Yeah, next time we're together.
Speaker 2:I can't guarantee that it will be sung well, but it will be sung with my whole chest for sure.
Speaker 1:That's all that matters, especially for karaoke. Well, annie, thank you Always, always. It is such a pleasure to spend time with you and get to just listen to your wisdom and all that you have to share, because it is so much, and we get to learn from you today and hopefully, many other days. So, thank you, thank you, Thank you.
Speaker 2:Thank you, Keri. Thanks for just holding the space and having me here. It's always an honor.
Speaker 1:You're the best.